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 Performace?? Autostyling??

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Civic Potenza
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PostSubject: Performace?? Autostyling??   Tue Sep 18 2007, 18:16

Seen a number of ES and when ever i seen them i dunno weather is it a joke of the day. ALot of people will keep complaining "My car let ppl tia" "No Power" "What To Do". At the end of the day when they do their car is still as slow maybe torque increase and for one reason they are playing sound system too. Too me is a big joke of the day how to play performance and sound system together.

Some even worst wanna mod their car but dun dare to push ur car all the way. I Just have to say before u mod the car mod the driver. Know the limit on ur car before u do any mods on it.

While there are people always wish to do a rear conversion on their ES. Firstly just wanna know weather if ur ES is on 500bhp or even more?? If yes i dun wish to say anything but for our ES is impossible to get this kind of standard. So i really hope people in this forum can sometimes be realistic abit.

Alot of people in this forum i notice either love to say their car is how fast or how good they are or basically just toking how much knowledge they know on their car but in actual fact i always bound to wonder weather they realli know about their cars or just hearing what others say tat y u guys say the stuff is good.

Well i am nt flaming anyone in this forum, but this is what i always feel. Moderators if u think my post is too so call "Xia Lan" can always locked this thread.
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Tue Sep 18 2007, 22:47

Civic Potenza wrote:
Seen a number of ES and when ever i seen them i dunno weather is it a joke of the day. ALot of people will keep complaining "My car let ppl tia" "No Power" "What To Do". At the end of the day when they do their car is still as slow maybe torque increase and for one reason they are playing sound system too. Too me is a big joke of the day how to play performance and sound system together.

Some even worst wanna mod their car but dun dare to push ur car all the way. I Just have to say before u mod the car mod the driver. Know the limit on ur car before u do any mods on it.

While there are people always wish to do a rear conversion on their ES. Firstly just wanna know weather if ur ES is on 500bhp or even more?? If yes i dun wish to say anything but for our ES is impossible to get this kind of standard. So i really hope people in this forum can sometimes be realistic abit.

Alot of people in this forum i notice either love to say their car is how fast or how good they are or basically just toking how much knowledge they know on their car but in actual fact i always bound to wonder weather they realli know about their cars or just hearing what others say tat y u guys say the stuff is good.

Well i am nt flaming anyone in this forum, but this is what i always feel. Moderators if u think my post is too so call "Xia Lan" can always locked this thread.

i can only say this to you: diff ppl hv diff perceptions abt their car. hw they wanna go abt doing it is entirely their choice, be it performance or looks or ICE. afterall it, its their $, not yours. just as u like ur ride's styling, there might might be ppl who find it loud and distasteful. tt's y i say its up to the individual. in a forum, its abt sharing information. hw valid the information might be is entirely up to one to do research and follow up on. if one bases his /her info on watever tt's being written, then i got nothing to say. fyi, doing a rear dsic conversion has got nothing to do w hw many HP a car has. the altis is a family car, yet it comes w all 260mm disc brakes n its bigger than the EK4's rear 240mm, n we all know EK series r power packed cars. so hw do u explain tt? matter of fact, since u say the ES series civics hv only modest power outputs, y not change the front to drums? it still does the job of braking mah tio bo? Razz iirc, u did express an interest on the rear disc brakes sometimes back, whether u follow up or not, i dunno n frankly, i also dun want to know. as far as i'm concerned, ur posting carries a tinge or sacarsm and sour grapes @ not able to achieve certain thing on ur ES. however, i would very much like to gv u the benefit of doubt tt u meant otherwise. if tt really is the case, i owe u an apology for misinterpretion of ur posting. else, u hv just lost ur credibility.....afro


p.s: i know roughly wat u hv done to ur ride. good for u. BUT, if ur point is coming here to voice out ur opinion tt we should emulate ur ride's performance path, then, too bad.afro cuz we mod for personal satisfaction. not to tell ppl they they shd follow us. its a fine line betwn advising and insisting. ur intent seems to biase towards the latter


Last edited by on Tue Sep 18 2007, 23:04; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Tue Sep 18 2007, 22:53

I think i need to remove my stock rear disc liao Sad
Horse too low Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 00:05

hm..ur theory on having ice while doing up performance.. well, i
understand u r trying to say 1 can only get the most out of either
direction. quite true but some ppl may not wan the most from either.



a veri gd example is me, i dun need super duper sound system in my car
but at least a standard. with the kind of weight added, i cant get used
to the slow pickup of my es compared to the 2g city i drove be4. so i
did some performance mods. i can simply lap d17 or k20 or a snail to
get some sort like 3/4 performance, 1/4 ICE, but i did not. i rather
change car. but is true and is the fact that es cannot pickup well with
the extra weight added. so i think is ok to say my car no power Very Happy, wat to do...bounce



in the end, still depends on individual on how fierce/daring one wanted
to mod his car. is a freedom for ppl to say wat they wan and for ppl
like u with experience to guide others.



to push their car of not, u cant control or force ppl to. and is not
for u to judge. eg me again, my type of 'pushing' to u may be nothing,
but maybe something to others. and ur 'pushing' maybe too much for me.
individuals have their own thinking and judgement.



1 last thing, did u ever think y honda engineers gives es rear drum
instead of rear disc?? y es3 is with rear disc?? do u noe es3's bhp??
wats so gd abt drum compared to disc?? and do u noe es is made for in
the first place?? i leave it for u to find out more about the limits of
our es.



drunken es is a family car, is the fact. peace.
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 00:50

While we do not really encourage flaming here, we do not mind members speaking their minds. at the same time members should also be mindful such that they maintain a cordial or mutually respecting mentality when it comes to talking about sensitive issues. Let's all check on your own words and tones.

sometimes, simple words may be distorted by the wrong use of words or tone adopted.

while I will be monitoring the direction of the discussion, I will not lock the thread for now cos it doesn't seem overly fiery.

the discussion did indeed invoke some thoughts

have fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 00:53

scratch scratch scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 03:43

darth vader wrote:
Civic Potenza wrote:
Seen a number of ES and when ever i seen them i dunno weather is it a joke of the day. ALot of people will keep complaining "My car let ppl tia" "No Power" "What To Do". At the end of the day when they do their car is still as slow maybe torque increase and for one reason they are playing sound system too. Too me is a big joke of the day how to play performance and sound system together.

Some even worst wanna mod their car but dun dare to push ur car all the way. I Just have to say before u mod the car mod the driver. Know the limit on ur car before u do any mods on it.

While there are people always wish to do a rear conversion on their ES. Firstly just wanna know weather if ur ES is on 500bhp or even more?? If yes i dun wish to say anything but for our ES is impossible to get this kind of standard. So i really hope people in this forum can sometimes be realistic abit.

Alot of people in this forum i notice either love to say their car is how fast or how good they are or basically just toking how much knowledge they know on their car but in actual fact i always bound to wonder weather they realli know about their cars or just hearing what others say tat y u guys say the stuff is good.

Well i am nt flaming anyone in this forum, but this is what i always feel. Moderators if u think my post is too so call "Xia Lan" can always locked this thread.

i can only say this to you: diff ppl hv diff perceptions abt their car. hw they wanna go abt doing it is entirely their choice, be it performance or looks or ICE. afterall it, its their $, not yours. just as u like ur ride's styling, there might might be ppl who find it loud and distasteful. tt's y i say its up to the individual. in a forum, its abt sharing information. hw valid the information might be is entirely up to one to do research and follow up on. if one bases his /her info on watever tt's being written, then i got nothing to say. fyi, doing a rear dsic conversion has got nothing to do w hw many HP a car has. the altis is a family car, yet it comes w all 260mm disc brakes n its bigger than the EK4's rear 240mm, n we all know EK series r power packed cars. so hw do u explain tt? matter of fact, since u say the ES series civics hv only modest power outputs, y not change the front to drums? it still does the job of braking mah tio bo? Razz iirc, u did express an interest on the rear disc brakes sometimes back, whether u follow up or not, i dunno n frankly, i also dun want to know. as far as i'm concerned, ur posting carries a tinge or sacarsm and sour grapes @ not able to achieve certain thing on ur ES. however, i would very much like to gv u the benefit of doubt tt u meant otherwise. if tt really is the case, i owe u an apology for misinterpretion of ur posting. else, u hv just lost ur credibility.....afro


p.s: i know roughly wat u hv done to ur ride. good for u. BUT, if ur point is coming here to voice out ur opinion tt we should emulate ur ride's performance path, then, too bad.afro cuz we mod for personal satisfaction. not to tell ppl they they shd follow us. its a fine line betwn advising and insisting. ur intent seems to biase towards the latter

Ha... DV firstly my ride is stock so i dun get wad u mean by "u know roughly wad i done to my ride" scratch . Dun get the wrong idea of i am getting sour grape or being sarcastic in this forum or not able to gain the horse power that i want in my car as wad people say in the end as weather if u got the balls to run dun u think so Laughing . As i always believe that there are always higher mountain and also of course not forgetting pals that know alot of knowledge about their car compare to me.

I come here is not to voice out that people should follow my ride performance cos i dun believe in this afterall. Maybe for the brake disc different people have different opinion that is why i always ponder this question to myself weather is the rear disc realli needed on a normal bhp cars.

If this issue that i post might be sensitive to you, than i will apologised cos i mean no harm. Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 03:45

God wrote:
I think i need to remove my stock rear disc liao Sad
Horse too low Mad

Hey, sorri dun say till like tat i believe ur car is fast ya. Like i just say sometimes i am wondering if wad people say about the rear disc conversion is true after all. If my post have hurt ur feeling well i apologised to you. pirat
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 03:48

Airlesy wrote:
hm..ur theory on having ice while doing up performance.. well, i
understand u r trying to say 1 can only get the most out of either
direction. quite true but some ppl may not wan the most from either.



a veri gd example is me, i dun need super duper sound system in my car
but at least a standard. with the kind of weight added, i cant get used
to the slow pickup of my es compared to the 2g city i drove be4. so i
did some performance mods. i can simply lap d17 or k20 or a snail to
get some sort like 3/4 performance, 1/4 ICE, but i did not. i rather
change car. but is true and is the fact that es cannot pickup well with
the extra weight added. so i think is ok to say my car no power Very Happy, wat to do...bounce



in the end, still depends on individual on how fierce/daring one wanted
to mod his car. is a freedom for ppl to say wat they wan and for ppl
like u with experience to guide others.



to push their car of not, u cant control or force ppl to. and is not
for u to judge. eg me again, my type of 'pushing' to u may be nothing,
but maybe something to others. and ur 'pushing' maybe too much for me.
individuals have their own thinking and judgement.



1 last thing, did u ever think y honda engineers gives es rear drum
instead of rear disc?? y es3 is with rear disc?? do u noe es3's bhp??
wats so gd abt drum compared to disc?? and do u noe es is made for in
the first place?? i leave it for u to find out more about the limits of
our es.



drunken es is a family car, is the fact. peace.

yeah ES is a Economy car. Anyway once again if i have hurt your feelings in this post i sincerly apologised to u. rendeer
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 12:03

too late. dun friend with u liao.geek
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 12:31

depends on individual and bargain....

ICE + Performance = $$$

You just need to balance the equation to gain full enlightenment...
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darth vader
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 15:59

Civic Potenza wrote:
darth vader wrote:
Civic Potenza wrote:
Seen a number of ES and when ever i seen them i dunno weather is it a joke of the day. ALot of people will keep complaining "My car let ppl tia" "No Power" "What To Do". At the end of the day when they do their car is still as slow maybe torque increase and for one reason they are playing sound system too. Too me is a big joke of the day how to play performance and sound system together.

Some even worst wanna mod their car but dun dare to push ur car all the way. I Just have to say before u mod the car mod the driver. Know the limit on ur car before u do any mods on it.

While there are people always wish to do a rear conversion on their ES. Firstly just wanna know weather if ur ES is on 500bhp or even more?? If yes i dun wish to say anything but for our ES is impossible to get this kind of standard. So i really hope people in this forum can sometimes be realistic abit.

Alot of people in this forum i notice either love to say their car is how fast or how good they are or basically just toking how much knowledge they know on their car but in actual fact i always bound to wonder weather they realli know about their cars or just hearing what others say tat y u guys say the stuff is good.

Well i am nt flaming anyone in this forum, but this is what i always feel. Moderators if u think my post is too so call "Xia Lan" can always locked this thread.

i can only say this to you: diff ppl hv diff perceptions abt their car. hw they wanna go abt doing it is entirely their choice, be it performance or looks or ICE. afterall it, its their $, not yours. just as u like ur ride's styling, there might might be ppl who find it loud and distasteful. tt's y i say its up to the individual. in a forum, its abt sharing information. hw valid the information might be is entirely up to one to do research and follow up on. if one bases his /her info on watever tt's being written, then i got nothing to say. fyi, doing a rear dsic conversion has got nothing to do w hw many HP a car has. the altis is a family car, yet it comes w all 260mm disc brakes n its bigger than the EK4's rear 240mm, n we all know EK series r power packed cars. so hw do u explain tt? matter of fact, since u say the ES series civics hv only modest power outputs, y not change the front to drums? it still does the job of braking mah tio bo? Razz iirc, u did express an interest on the rear disc brakes sometimes back, whether u follow up or not, i dunno n frankly, i also dun want to know. as far as i'm concerned, ur posting carries a tinge or sacarsm and sour grapes @ not able to achieve certain thing on ur ES. however, i would very much like to gv u the benefit of doubt tt u meant otherwise. if tt really is the case, i owe u an apology for misinterpretion of ur posting. else, u hv just lost ur credibility.....afro


p.s: i know roughly wat u hv done to ur ride. good for u. BUT, if ur point is coming here to voice out ur opinion tt we should emulate ur ride's performance path, then, too bad.afro cuz we mod for personal satisfaction. not to tell ppl they they shd follow us. its a fine line betwn advising and insisting. ur intent seems to biase towards the latter

Ha... DV firstly my ride is stock so i dun get wad u mean by "u know roughly wad i done to my ride" scratch . Dun get the wrong idea of i am getting sour grape or being sarcastic in this forum or not able to gain the horse power that i want in my car as wad people say in the end as weather if u got the balls to run dun u think so Laughing . As i always believe that there are always higher mountain and also of course not forgetting pals that know alot of knowledge about their car compare to me.

I come here is not to voice out that people should follow my ride performance cos i dun believe in this afterall. Maybe for the brake disc different people have different opinion that is why i always ponder this question to myself weather is the rear disc realli needed on a normal bhp cars.

If this issue that i post might be sensitive to you, than i will apologised cos i mean no harm. Cool

no offence taken bro. thus no need for apologies. perhaps i misinterpreted ur intent. afro
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 16:05

seriously till now i still dun understand wat is this thread for.... scratch scratch scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 16:06

Airlesy wrote:
too late. dun friend with u liao.geek

wow ai an ni kuan kong meh. okie dun friend than dun friend lor. boh pian Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 17:03

roychew14 wrote:
seriously till now i still dun understand wat is this thread for.... scratch scratch scratch

this thread is for someone whu keep boasting tat his bloody ES is 200hp
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 17:09

Civic Potenza wrote:
roychew14 wrote:
seriously till now i still dun understand wat is this thread for.... scratch scratch scratch

this thread is for someone whu keep boasting tat his bloody ES is 200hp
ohk... but it doesnt sound like it... anyway yr thread yr call... Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 20:48

Civic Potenza wrote:
roychew14 wrote:
seriously till now i still dun understand wat is this thread for.... scratch scratch scratch

this thread is for someone whu keep boasting tat his bloody ES is 200hp
Not mine..its was dynoed at 200.1bhp pig
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Wed Sep 19 2007, 23:48

eeee78 wrote:
Civic Potenza wrote:
roychew14 wrote:
seriously till now i still dun understand wat is this thread for.... scratch scratch scratch

this thread is for someone whu keep boasting tat his bloody ES is 200hp
Not mine..its was dynoed at 200.1bhp pig

how you know my ES5R is 200hp?! Shocked Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Thu Sep 20 2007, 00:16

Civic Potenza wrote:
Seen a number of ES and when ever i seen them i dunno weather is it a joke of the day. ALot of people will keep complaining "My car let ppl tia" "No Power" "What To Do". At the end of the day when they do their car is still as slow maybe torque increase and for one reason they are playing sound system too. Too me is a big joke of the day how to play performance and sound system together.

Some even worst wanna mod their car but dun dare to push ur car all the way. I Just have to say before u mod the car mod the driver. Know the limit on ur car before u do any mods on it.

While there are people always wish to do a rear conversion on their ES. Firstly just wanna know weather if ur ES is on 500bhp or even more?? If yes i dun wish to say anything but for our ES is impossible to get this kind of standard. So i really hope people in this forum can sometimes be realistic abit.

Alot of people in this forum i notice either love to say their car is how fast or how good they are or basically just toking how much knowledge they know on their car but in actual fact i always bound to wonder weather they realli know about their cars or just hearing what others say tat y u guys say the stuff is good.

Well i am nt flaming anyone in this forum, but this is what i always feel. Moderators if u think my post is too so call "Xia Lan" can always locked this thread.

Actually bro you should not post in a way like this. Even if you you admit that you are posting in what you feel, still being outspoken is never too good. Even if people target or suan you, Leave it alone la. People have mouth, as long as you happy with your car, it's worth it. Like some people can spend 30k on ICE and they are happy while others spent 30k on mods.

Bottomline is "It's your money, as long as you happy, it's worth it!"

Before you make a comment or hear people say things, do read up about brake biasing. Don't follow hearsay too much, example "Wah, Xiaonick say EP3 disc good means confirm good" or "Xiaonick say EP3 disc are useless, no brake distance improvement" (Quoting my name just for example)

Let's talk about brake biasing shall we if you did not bother to research it? Before I post my 10000 words essay, I should just summaries for the Lazy people

1)I am not an expert and neither claim to be one. Just giving my 2 cents of opinon. :)

2)Upgrading the Front Brake Biasing might causing stopping distance to increase and the car to nose dive.

3)Upgrading the Rear is recommended but the should not cause the Rear tyre to brake more which may cause our ES to drift like Takumi. (Ok I am kidding)

4)Calculating Brake Biasing and Weight transfer is not easy. We do not have the time and money to do this

5)We are not professional racers and usually mod for the love of it.

Most important Point : Changing the effectiveness of the front brake components without changing the rear brake effectiveness can also cause our brake bias to change
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Like most things in life though, calculating brake bias is not as simple
as it may appear at first glance.

Designing a braking system to these static conditions would neglect the second most important factor in the brake bias equation – the effect of dynamic weight transfer during braking.

We at Team ES are seldom professional racers. We all have jobs or studies, we do not have the time to calculate equations or spend 10k to blueprint an engine or a brake system.

I will not post too much on brake distribution (If not, I will need 3 pages). Neither am I claiming to be an expert in this field. I'm just giving my 2 cents worth of useless post.

During braking, weight is transferred from the rear axle to the front
axle, we can feel this effect on our bodies as we are
thrown against the seat belts.

So if you all are still reading, I hoped I have not confused you

Now we need to consider

Brake Biasing



1)Weight distribution of the vehicle at rest

2)CG height – the higher it is, the more weight gets transferred
during a stop

3)Wheelbase – the shorter it is, the more weight gets transferred
during a stop

We also need to consider how much brake torque is developed at each corner of the
vehicle, and how much of that torque is transferred to the tire contact
patch and reacted against the ground (aka Friction):

It is the combination of these two functions

braking force at
the tire versus weight on that tire
– that determine our braking
bias

Most important Point : Changing the effectiveness of the front brake components
without changing the rear brake effectiveness can also cause our brake
bias to change

That is why I never recommend people to use 2 different type of tyres for front and rear.

While we can do calculations to determine what the optimum front-to-rear
brake bias should be under all conditions, we do not really have the time or money to do this. Most of us here usually like to be on a budget aka Cheap and Good kind of brake system.

The perfect balanced brake system?

So if you are still reading on, what are we looking for you may be wondering. We are looking for a perfectly balenced brake system!

Most cars, however, have brakes at the rear that are smaller than the
front. There are a lot of reasons for doing this, and one of them is
to help provide the correct brake bias. Also, most cars have a proportioning
valve which limits the amount of brake pressure seen at the rear calipers

Why bother so much about brake biasing?

Effects of poor brake bias on not only include lousy stopping distances, but also decrease your brake pad life.

If a car is too heavily front-biased in the
deceleration range it typically operates in, it will wear front pads
more quickly due to the fact that the rear brakes aren’t doing
as much of the stopping work as they could be. However, the rear brake
pads will probably last forever

We know where most auto manufacturers tune brake bias. I'm sure honda has spend R&D on our civic.They like
our cars to be front-biased in all conditions achievable by the tires
offered on the vehicle.

So a slow Civic (remember, our's a family car) should be able to brake in time for the family man travelling at around 60km everyday. Typically, the auto manufacturers design their cars
to be 5% to 10% more front-biased than optimum for maximum deceleration,
but they provide enhanced brake stability in return. You don't want your Rear to lock up. If you can't picture, imagine pulling your handbrake while in a corner. Tail happy or fish tail will be a new lesson learnt!

A lot of us do travel faster than 60km at most times, so hence we find the stock ES rotor lacking. So what do we do? We install better front brakes! For example, it is not uncommon to install more
aggressive front brake pads (which will make the car even more front
biased) and see stopping distances go up 5% or more. Dedicated race pads may result in even longer stopping distances. But all this is assumtions, unless we have the time and effort with the expensive equipment to measure then only we can justify!

A lot of us (like yours truely Xiaonick) install Bigger brakes like preludes, wilwoods, Brembo which are not properly matched to Our Family Civic.


Any time that a bigger front rotor is installed, there is a simultaneous
need to decrease the effective clamping force of the caliper (installing
smaller pistons is the easiest method) to offset the increased torque
created by larger rotor effective radius.

Our cars end up with both
bigger rotors and larger pistons which serve to drastically shift the
bias even more forward. (AKA your famous nose drive feeling)

So in short, I am not expert but we should be making changes to increase the amount of
rear bias. We should make small changes to
increase rear bias and this might end up with shorter stopping distances than stock and lesser nose diving

Not forgetting tyres do play a part too in the stopping distance.
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Civic Potenza
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Thu Sep 20 2007, 00:31

xiaonick wrote:
Civic Potenza wrote:
Seen a number of ES and when ever i seen them i dunno weather is it a joke of the day. ALot of people will keep complaining "My car let ppl tia" "No Power" "What To Do". At the end of the day when they do their car is still as slow maybe torque increase and for one reason they are playing sound system too. Too me is a big joke of the day how to play performance and sound system together.

Some even worst wanna mod their car but dun dare to push ur car all the way. I Just have to say before u mod the car mod the driver. Know the limit on ur car before u do any mods on it.

While there are people always wish to do a rear conversion on their ES. Firstly just wanna know weather if ur ES is on 500bhp or even more?? If yes i dun wish to say anything but for our ES is impossible to get this kind of standard. So i really hope people in this forum can sometimes be realistic abit.

Alot of people in this forum i notice either love to say their car is how fast or how good they are or basically just toking how much knowledge they know on their car but in actual fact i always bound to wonder weather they realli know about their cars or just hearing what others say tat y u guys say the stuff is good.

Well i am nt flaming anyone in this forum, but this is what i always feel. Moderators if u think my post is too so call "Xia Lan" can always locked this thread.

Actually bro you should not post in a way like this. Even if you you admit that you are posting in what you feel, still being outspoken is never too good.

Before you make a comment or hear people say things, do read up about brake biasing. Don't follow hearsay too much, example "Wah, Xiaonick say EP3 disc good means confirm good" or "Xiaonick say EP3 disc are useless, no brake distance improvement" (Quoting my name just for example)

Let's talk about brake biasing shall we if you did not bother to research it? Before I post my 10000 words essay, I should just summaries for the Lazy people

1)I am not an expert and neither claim to be one. Just giving my 2 cents of opinon. Smile

2)Upgrading the Front Brake Biasing might causing stopping distance to increase and the car to nose dive.

3)Upgrading the Rear is recommended but the should not cause the Rear tyre to brake more which may cause our ES to drift like Takumi. (Ok I am kidding)

4)Calculating Brake Biasing and Weight transfer is not easy. We do not have the time and money to do this

5)We are not professional racers and usually mod for the love of it.

Most important Point : Changing the effectiveness of the front brake components without changing the rear brake effectiveness can also cause our brake bias to change
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Like most things in life though, calculating brake bias is not as simple
as it may appear at first glance.

Designing a braking system to these static conditions would neglect the second most important factor in the brake bias equation – the effect of dynamic weight transfer during braking.

We at Team ES are seldom professional racers. We all have jobs or studies, we do not have the time to calculate equations or spend 10k to blueprint an engine or a brake system.

I will not post too much on brake distribution (If not, I will need 3 pages). Neither am I claiming to be an expert in this field. I'm just giving my 2 cents worth of useless post.

During braking, weight is transferred from the rear axle to the front
axle, we can feel this effect on our bodies as we are
thrown against the seat belts.

So if you all are still reading, I hoped I have not confused you

Now we need to consider

Brake Biasing



1)Weight distribution of the vehicle at rest

2)CG height – the higher it is, the more weight gets transferred
during a stop

3)Wheelbase – the shorter it is, the more weight gets transferred
during a stop

We also need to consider how much brake torque is developed at each corner of the
vehicle, and how much of that torque is transferred to the tire contact
patch and reacted against the ground (aka Friction):

It is the combination of these two functions

braking force at
the tire versus weight on that tire
– that determine our braking
bias

Most important Point : Changing the effectiveness of the front brake components
without changing the rear brake effectiveness can also cause our brake
bias to change

That is why I never recommend people to use 2 different type of tyres for front and rear.

While we can do calculations to determine what the optimum front-to-rear
brake bias should be under all conditions, we do not really have the time or money to do this. Most of us here usually like to be on a budget aka Cheap and Good kind of brake system.

The perfect balanced brake system?

So if you are still reading on, what are we looking for you may be wondering. We are looking for a perfectly balenced brake system!

Most cars, however, have brakes at the rear that are smaller than the
front. There are a lot of reasons for doing this, and one of them is
to help provide the correct brake bias. Also, most cars have a proportioning
valve which limits the amount of brake pressure seen at the rear calipers

Why bother so much about brake biasing?

Effects of poor brake bias on not only include lousy stopping distances, but also decrease your brake pad life.

If a car is too heavily front-biased in the
deceleration range it typically operates in, it will wear front pads
more quickly due to the fact that the rear brakes aren’t doing
as much of the stopping work as they could be. However, the rear brake
pads will probably last forever

We know where most auto manufacturers tune brake bias. I'm sure honda has spend R&D on our civic.They like
our cars to be front-biased in all conditions achievable by the tires
offered on the vehicle.

So a slow Civic (remember, our's a family car) should be able to brake in time for the family man travelling at around 60km everyday. Typically, the auto manufacturers design their cars
to be 5% to 10% more front-biased than optimum for maximum deceleration,
but they provide enhanced brake stability in return. You don't want your Rear to lock up. If you can't picture, imagine pulling your handbrake while in a corner. Tail happy or fish tail will be a new lesson learnt!

A lot of us do travel faster than 60km at most times, so hence we find the stock ES rotor lacking. So what do we do? We install better front brakes! For example, it is not uncommon to install more
aggressive front brake pads (which will make the car even more front
biased) and see stopping distances go up 5% or more. Dedicated race pads may result in even longer stopping distances. But all this is assumtions, unless we have the time and effort with the expensive equipment to measure then only we can justify!

A lot of us (like yours truely Xiaonick) install Bigger brakes like preludes, wilwoods, Brembo which are not properly matched to Our Family Civic.


Any time that a bigger front rotor is installed, there is a simultaneous
need to decrease the effective clamping force of the caliper (installing
smaller pistons is the easiest method) to offset the increased torque
created by larger rotor effective radius.

Our cars end up with both
bigger rotors and larger pistons which serve to drastically shift the
bias even more forward. (AKA your famous nose drive feeling)

So in short, I am not expert but we should be making changes to increase the amount of
rear bias. We should make small changes to
increase rear bias and this might end up with shorter stopping distances than stock and lesser nose diving

Not forgetting tyres do play a part too in the stopping distance.

wow pal, did not know tat u know so many things bout brake system maybe u shld work as a brake specialist in any garage. Laughing
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eeee78
2000 RPM
2000 RPM


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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Thu Sep 20 2007, 00:50

beemer wrote:
eeee78 wrote:
Civic Potenza wrote:
roychew14 wrote:
seriously till now i still dun understand wat is this thread for.... scratch scratch scratch

this thread is for someone whu keep boasting tat his bloody ES is 200hp
Not mine..its was dynoed at 200.1bhp pig

how you know my ES5R is 200hp?! Shocked Shocked
PUI!
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Civic Potenza
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Number of posts : 49
Age : 33
Location : West Side
Registration date : 2007-02-21

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Ride: eg. Honda Civic (Year or chasis code)
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Thu Sep 20 2007, 00:53

beemer wrote:
eeee78 wrote:
Civic Potenza wrote:
roychew14 wrote:
seriously till now i still dun understand wat is this thread for.... scratch scratch scratch

this thread is for someone whu keep boasting tat his bloody ES is 200hp
Not mine..its was dynoed at 200.1bhp pig

how you know my ES5R is 200hp?! Shocked Shocked

ha... to bad ur ES is black but his ES is WHITE
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rOcH
Idling
Idling


Number of posts : 410
Registration date : 2006-10-17

PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Thu Sep 20 2007, 14:38

200bhp Shocked Shocked

whose huh??

Laughing Laughing Laughing
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beemer
1000 RPM
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PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Thu Sep 20 2007, 17:51

Civic Potenza wrote:
beemer wrote:
eeee78 wrote:
Civic Potenza wrote:
roychew14 wrote:
seriously till now i still dun understand wat is this thread for.... scratch scratch scratch

this thread is for someone whu keep boasting tat his bloody ES is 200hp
Not mine..its was dynoed at 200.1bhp pig

how you know my ES5R is 200hp?! Shocked Shocked

ha... to bad ur ES is black but his ES is WHITE

white one.... with checker stickers? Suspect
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Civic Potenza
Idling
Idling
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 49
Age : 33
Location : West Side
Registration date : 2007-02-21

My Garage
Ride: eg. Honda Civic (Year or chasis code)
Image!:
My Satisfaction Level:
0/0  (0/0)

PostSubject: Re: Performace?? Autostyling??   Thu Sep 20 2007, 18:04

beemer wrote:
Civic Potenza wrote:
beemer wrote:
eeee78 wrote:
Civic Potenza wrote:
roychew14 wrote:
seriously till now i still dun understand wat is this thread for.... scratch scratch scratch

this thread is for someone whu keep boasting tat his bloody ES is 200hp
Not mine..its was dynoed at 200.1bhp pig

how you know my ES5R is 200hp?! Shocked Shocked

ha... to bad ur ES is black but his ES is WHITE

white one.... with checker stickers? Suspect

nope definetly not him, saw him at outside the garage
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