- Civic Potenza wrote:
- Seen a number of ES and when ever i seen them i dunno weather is it a joke of the day. ALot of people will keep complaining "My car let ppl tia" "No Power" "What To Do". At the end of the day when they do their car is still as slow maybe torque increase and for one reason they are playing sound system too. Too me is a big joke of the day how to play performance and sound system together.
Some even worst wanna mod their car but dun dare to push ur car all the way. I Just have to say before u mod the car mod the driver. Know the limit on ur car before u do any mods on it.
While there are people always wish to do a rear conversion on their ES. Firstly just wanna know weather if ur ES is on 500bhp or even more?? If yes i dun wish to say anything but for our ES is impossible to get this kind of standard. So i really hope people in this forum can sometimes be realistic abit.
Alot of people in this forum i notice either love to say their car is how fast or how good they are or basically just toking how much knowledge they know on their car but in actual fact i always bound to wonder weather they realli know about their cars or just hearing what others say tat y u guys say the stuff is good.
Well i am nt flaming anyone in this forum, but this is what i always feel. Moderators if u think my post is too so call "Xia Lan" can always locked this thread.
Actually bro you should not post in a way like this. Even if you you admit that you are posting in what you feel, still being outspoken is never too good. Even if people target or suan you, Leave it alone la. People have mouth, as long as you happy with your car, it's worth it. Like some people can spend 30k on ICE and they are happy while others spent 30k on mods.
Bottomline is "It's your money, as long as you happy, it's worth it!"
Before you make a comment or hear people say things, do read up about brake biasing. Don't follow hearsay too much, example "Wah, Xiaonick say EP3 disc good means confirm good" or "Xiaonick say EP3 disc are useless, no brake distance improvement" (Quoting my name just for example)
Let's talk about brake biasing shall we if you did not bother to research it? Before I post my 10000 words essay, I should just summaries for the Lazy people
1)I am not an expert and neither claim to be one. Just giving my 2 cents of opinon. :)
2)Upgrading the Front Brake Biasing might causing stopping distance to increase and the car to nose dive.
3)Upgrading the Rear is recommended but the should not cause the Rear tyre to brake more which may cause our ES to drift like Takumi. (Ok I am kidding)
4)Calculating Brake Biasing and Weight transfer is not easy. We do not have the time and money to do this
5)We are not professional racers and usually mod for the love of it.
Most important Point :
Changing the effectiveness of the front brake components without changing the rear brake effectiveness can also cause our brake bias to change--------------------------------------------------------------------
Like most things in life though, calculating brake bias is not as simple
as it may appear at first glance.
Designing a braking system to these static conditions would neglect the second most important factor in the brake bias equation – the effect of dynamic weight transfer during braking.
We at Team ES are seldom professional racers. We all have jobs or studies, we do not have the time to calculate equations or spend 10k to blueprint an engine or a brake system.
I will not post too much on brake distribution (If not, I will need 3 pages). Neither am I claiming to be an expert in this field. I'm just giving my 2 cents worth of useless post.
During braking, weight is transferred from the rear axle to the front
axle, we can feel this effect on our bodies as we are
thrown against the seat belts.
So if you all are still reading, I hoped I have not confused you
Now we need to consider
Brake Biasing1)Weight distribution of the vehicle at rest
2)CG height – the higher it is, the more weight gets transferred
during a stop
3)Wheelbase – the shorter it is, the more weight gets transferred
during a stop
We also need to consider how much brake torque is developed at each corner of the
vehicle, and how much of that torque is transferred to the tire contact
patch and reacted against the ground (aka Friction):
It is the combination of these two functions
braking force at
the tire versus weight on that tire – that determine our braking
bias
Most important Point :
Changing the effectiveness of the front brake components
without changing the rear brake effectiveness can also cause our brake
bias to change
That is why I never recommend people to use 2 different type of tyres for front and rear.While we can do calculations to determine what the optimum front-to-rear
brake bias should be under all conditions, we do not really have the time or money to do this. Most of us here usually like to be on a budget aka Cheap and Good kind of brake system.
The perfect balanced brake system?
So if you are still reading on, what are we looking for you may be wondering. We are looking for a perfectly balenced brake system!
Most cars, however, have brakes at the rear that are smaller than the
front. There are a lot of reasons for doing this, and one of them is
to help provide the correct brake bias. Also, most cars have a proportioning
valve which limits the amount of brake pressure seen at the rear calipers
Why bother so much about brake biasing?Effects of poor brake bias on not only include lousy stopping distances, but also decrease your brake pad life.
If a car is too heavily front-biased in the
deceleration range it typically operates in, it will wear front pads
more quickly due to the fact that the rear brakes aren’t doing
as much of the stopping work as they could be. However, the rear brake
pads will probably last forever
We know where most auto manufacturers tune brake bias. I'm sure honda has spend R&D on our civic.They like
our cars to be front-biased in all conditions achievable by the tires
offered on the vehicle.
So a slow Civic (remember, our's a family car) should be able to brake in time for the family man travelling at around 60km everyday. Typically, the auto manufacturers design their cars
to be 5% to 10% more front-biased than optimum for maximum deceleration,
but they provide enhanced brake stability in return. You don't want your Rear to lock up. If you can't picture, imagine pulling your handbrake while in a corner. Tail happy or fish tail will be a new lesson learnt!
A lot of us do travel faster than 60km at most times, so hence we find the stock ES rotor lacking. So what do we do? We install better front brakes! For example, it is not uncommon to install more
aggressive front brake pads (which will make the car even more front
biased) and see stopping distances go up 5% or more. Dedicated race pads may result in even longer stopping distances. But all this is assumtions, unless we have the time and effort with the expensive equipment to measure then only we can justify!
A lot of us (like yours truely Xiaonick) install Bigger brakes like preludes, wilwoods, Brembo which are not properly matched to Our Family Civic.
Any time that a bigger front rotor is installed, there is a simultaneous
need to decrease the effective clamping force of the caliper (installing
smaller pistons is the easiest method) to offset the increased torque
created by larger rotor effective radius.
Our cars end up with both
bigger rotors and larger pistons which serve to drastically shift the
bias even more forward. (AKA your famous nose drive feeling)
So in short, I am not expert but we should be making changes to increase the amount of
rear bias. We should make small changes to
increase rear bias and this might end up with shorter stopping distances than stock and lesser nose diving
Not forgetting tyres do play a part too in the stopping distance.
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Tue Sep 18 2007, 18:16
iirc, u did express an interest on the rear disc brakes sometimes back, whether u follow up or not, i dunno n frankly, i also dun want to know. as far as i'm concerned, ur posting carries a tinge or sacarsm and sour grapes @ not able to achieve certain thing on ur ES. however, i would very much like to gv u the benefit of doubt tt u meant otherwise. if tt really is the case, i owe u an apology for misinterpretion of ur posting. else, u hv just lost ur credibility.....
, wat to do...
es is a family car, is the fact. peace.
. As i always believe that there are always higher mountain and also of course not forgetting pals that know alot of knowledge about their car compare to me. 
