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 What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?

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PostSubject: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:07

OK. to cut tru the arguements on SHC, the following are highly recommended for your car's engine oil:

1. Motul V300

2. Motul V300

3. Motul V300

Reason: it's a DOUBLE ester based oil. best of the best.

Or you can try Redline (poly ester or POL) , or OWS - designer oil.


Those who drive normal, anything oso can la. but do read the following post as a point of reference - by an academic - but little personal race experiene. very serious stuff...

Laughing


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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:14

rule of thumb. mineral oil 5000km, synthetic oil 10000km

of course syn oil will cost more, but don't change as often.. will work out to be the same i guess.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

quote bro megalord:

[color:589c=#444444:589c]This is totally not true. Some mineral can last 10k km without probs(look at genie47's UOA report on his citgo 5w-30 mineral), and some syn oils can already start to cause elevated wear by 5k(tonnes of UOA as evidence).
The margin between syn and mineral oils is further reduced through the breakthroughs in mineral side, say isosyn and that most syn oils out there are group III dino anyway.


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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:16

In general, I understand that there is no one body who governs what is defined as fully synthetic.

I also heard that Mobil1 fully synthetic oil actually behaves like a mineral oil and has the same if not lower boiling point than some mineral oils (to be corrected of course)

And many American oils are banned in Europe becos they are still using harmful stuff that is not allowed in Europe anymore.

and I also hear that Indemitsu is actually a small company in
Japan, and their oils are actually blended in Singapore.

is that why many advocate fully synthetic but 'cheaper' oils like RP, etc. be changed every 5,000 km or less? like mineral oil leh... hahaha... may be good for a 'one track day' use... cheep and good??? or more protection needed on the track?

What's left is the European brands... yet to hear bad things about them... so how?

OWS has no reference things for researchers to read up and comment... so it's a question mark too? although I heard many 'no regrets' comment on it by users...


So it's down to European stuff - sans Shell - which seemed to 'suck' in some tests? yes it's used in formula 1 races, and endorsed by every supercar manufacturer... yes... you sure it's off the shelf stuff? endorsements are paid adverts...

...
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:18

bro megalord

your explaination too chim for us layman.

can simplify down to what brands are good, what are not so we idiots (ok I speak for myself) dun crack our heads trying to find the key words you used on the labels of the oils? (and failing...)


thanks!!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

bro megalord's reply:

Bro, i wish i can come up with a chart, but there are some problems with it.
The foremost prob is that i probably will be sued by the various companies for deframing them.
Secondly, different brands of oils have different models of oils. For instance, motul has its normal oil, its 8100E, its 300V etc etc. While i may prefer or advise going for say model A for brand 1, i may find model B form brand1 crap. Thats why i don't recommand brands to date, unless they are all good or only have 1 model that is good imho.

Imho,
Castrol SLX is a great oil, but discontinued with edge with replacement. Still monitoring the performance of the Edge though...



Motul 300V is one great oil with complex ester(or double ester). Mainly for performance, but i have been studying UOAs of this oil and i reckon 10k km OCi may be fine with it, unlike the short lifespan of a racing oil. That will be my next oil and i will do several UOA at intervals to verify that. I don't know much about 8100E or other models from motul though... But if there is a oil from motul i will get its definately 300V.



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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:21

Quote bro Megalord

RP is quality oil, mainly PAO alike M1, but much cheaper, but its not really a full syn oil as the carrier oil is a Group I mineral. But still its good oil, and i got no idea why people say it doesn't last when i use 20k km OCI on lorries like cabstar and dyna(you all know how much hotter the always running diesel engines are like).


The honda Vtec oil, is abit too thick imho. 40wt is really thick and i got no idea why honda markets their own house brand at such thickness. Yes, if its meant for racing, i don't mind running a 40wt regular oil, but other then that no way. The regular oils shears under fierce driver and engine(heat, fuel dilation etc etc etc etc), and eventually you still get a thin oil.



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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:23

Quote bro Megalord

My fav brand is actually redline. They only have their street oil and racing oil. Of course you don't use their racing oil for long OCI as its not meant to be so and they did advise against that as it contains little additives like detergent etc etc, but its real good for short laps of racing. But somehow people don't compare racing oils to redline racing but redline street oils. Imho, they should compare apple to apple, not water melon to durain.
Redline street is what i have been using. We all know redline relies heavily on their base oil, poyol ester, or POE. This oil is a natural multigrade oil and with many desirable properties other then being expensive. It naturally cleans your engine, it has extraordinarily high oil film strength, its added with redline goody performance additive, it maintains your engine cleanliness etc etc so that you can go take part in the "cleanest engine in town competition", it has extraordinarily high resistance to shearing etc etc etc. Those are the reason why i am using it.



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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:24

Quote bro Megalord:

But, my oil may not be your oil, thats why i don't really go around talking about redline, as its not realy cheap. Some look for cheap and good, say schaeffer Supreme 7k, and diesels will love the supreme 9k with loads of moly and high mileage oil.

So back to my infamous phase, there is a oil for different people with different requirement. My best oil is not your best oil.
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:24

Quote bro Megalord

Ehhh.... Do you guys remember the big lawsuit btw castrol and mobil? Its all about the term synthetic, and as a result.... Group III is termed syn oil, and many companies followed that, flooding the whole market with hydrocracked dino marketed as syn oils. So.... there is a catagory of distinguishing mineral or syn actually.

M1 is fully syn, without doubt. Its a true syn infact. Though i rarely use M1, but i think it cannot be like a mineral ba. It has a brand name to protect, so i actually expect some quality from M1, though its not the oil for me. I am looking for a long lasting performance oil, that can protect despite being thin. The spec of M1 oils showed that their HTHS is very low for thin oils, so its out for me quite rapidly.

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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:31

quote bro megalord

American oils... Those big companies are actually good and reputable. Say amsoil? Thats a good oil, esp their motorcycle oil and their S2000 and S3000 racing oils. Schaeffer may need some introduction to those who don't explore oil brands beyond our shore, but its famous worldwide and makes quality oil, like the supreme 7k and 9k, and most importantly the S204 ATF with Z1 spec. So i am actually okie with american oil. Redline oil is american too! But its a small company as compared to M1, shell, schaeffer or others, but they produce quality stuffs! It doesn't take a big company to produce something good! Speciality formulations is another good one. Very small company, but the chief chemist is one hellova smart and experienced genius that can perform magic to make a oil that suit YOUR CAR uniquely, not 1 oil to fit all needs all cars.

Why people say RP cannot last? I have been reading through here and there and i reckon its because of the price, and since its cheap people can change it more often, and when people change more often, the rest thinks that its changed because it cannot perform or last. This is the chain i see. I don't see a problem with the oil not last 10k km. Yes, it may not be fully syn, since its carrier oil is a Group I, but its more synthetic then most of the fully synthetic oils out there with a min 70% PAO content in it. I don't see why it is incompetent. Its very expensive overseas and reputable too, but locally its cheap and i don't know why. Perhaps if its expensive people mentality will change.

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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:33

quote bro megalord

If i track, i will go for a thin oil. A thin and thermally stable oil thats resistant to shearing. Thin oil unleshes the most power as compared to a thicker version, no doubts about it. I won't use a thick oil to have it latter shear to the same thickness. I rather use a stable thin oil form the start.

OWS? Its not a oil company to start with, and i have been trying to find out who exactly made the oil for them. I am looking for samples to send it for a UOA to stop the myth. I hate to have people who advertise for the oil because their workshop said its good. Thats why i am determined to find the vis of the OWS "Racing", and find out WTF it is. If its a true breed racing oil like many think, you guys better stop using it unless you can afford to change it like the track people do. Never under estimate the magic of the brain. If you think car A is better somehow or rather, the car may perform better even if the comparison car is the same.

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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:35

quote megalord

Shell oils ah? I better not comment, but those racers do not use the shell oil off the shelf locally. The pracing horse agent doesn't use the usual Shell Helix Ultra, or SHU most people do use. They use the SHU-R, a 10w-60 racing oil from shell. And yes, its a performance oil and i tried it before. It performs even though its thick but still i won't want to use it. I still go for thin oils for many reasons.
Same goes to Vpower. Do our people really think its there for use on the tracks or F1?


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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:36



Motul makes quality oils, esp the 300V. The base oil already gives it a very good advantage over the rest of the competition. Redline? Dunno why leh, but we don't have a local distributor but a regional distributor that sells the oil at a relatively high price... Thats why you guys don't see it around on shelves. We can do something about it though....

choices choices... so many... Just choose one that suits your needs...

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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:37









its a rule of thumb. as long as you use oil with specifications as provided in the manual by the manufacturer and change according to the schedule. its not rocker science.
megalord replied:

Honda only specified API SL oils right? Now, if you were to drive around NUS slopes at low RPM, do check your oil by the end of 5k, see if your wear contents would ever be low?
Case II: Intermettian sprints and stops, like local traffic lights. Check if your regular oil could last 5k without giving elevated wear?

That reminds me during my JC days. The teacher said if we studied 4 hours a day, we will get an A for sure. However, what happened for the majority? It was a rule of thumb but unfortunately depending on conditions it may differ.

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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:40







rijac wrote:





correct. thats why its a rule of thumb. not everyone (in fact most everyday motorists don't) goes around driving in low rpm on sloppy roads, and most of us in
singapore mix city and expressway driving... MOST of us would get by just fine following a rule of thumb. add to that the fact that most of us don't keep our cars for ten years, why spend too much on engine oil, when the ordinary synthetic stuff once very 10k would suffice... no offence meant, just expressing my opinion.



megalord replied:


No offence meant too, the synthetic stuff you are getting is highly possibly hydrocracked mineral oil. So would that fall under the mineral or syn version?
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:41

quote bro megalord:

Now, i wonder if you noticed that, city driving shortens oil life considerably. You don't need low RPM at sloppy roads to create more engine wear as well. Read my various oil post and you will notice many other causes of it. And from what i noticed from most local drivers, they are indeed driving at low RPM most of the time judging from the way they drive and the pickup and such. As such from viscosity to type of oils, it matters.




Of course if i were to use my oil for 40k, my engine will possibily be fine. But how good would it be? You can easily guess.



What we are researching is to keep the engine in tip top condition, not just keeping it fine.


Now, what we are interested is, to get more out of the amount we spent on the so called ordinary syn stuff every 10k too. Performance, engine cleanliness, cooling, FC etc etc, all various aspects can be maximised when we consider what oil to use.
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:42

Should you keep your car for a few years only, then you need not change oil, spark plug, filters. All you need is to keep pumping petrol to keep the engine able to run. It will run fine for at least above 50k km as tested on several G9 corolla. Its sluggish, but it will run fine still. The lorries i maintain are running on 40 to 80k km OCI too, maybe you wanna try it. Most have travelled 200k km at least, but all are running fine too.

Lastly, good oil can be cheap. Who knows i am paying for premium oil for half the price you got your so called syn oil for? No one actually mentioned that good oil has to be expensive? The oil i use may eventually be cheaper then what you used, yet better.
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:43

if you read torco and mobil sites, they both seem to recommend that Honda Civic use 0W-20 or 5W-20 fully synthetic oils... even Ford is recommended to be using that...

And Mugen comes out with 0W-20 oil for Honda cars...

are they all aware of something we are not?

We still using 0W-30 or 0W-40 oils for everyday driving... better safe than sorry, or just plain out-dated?

(sorry, my abacus is still preferred to your electronic scientific calculator)
(my swiss automatic movement is still trusted over your japanese quartz watch)
(my horse is more trusty then your automobile)


?? something new?


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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:45

quote bro megalord

I think its the local people mentality, and the mentality is that thick is better since old days as old days mech have thought so. Well, it was indeed that many decades back thicker oil provide better mechanical protection, but unfortunately they don't really update their oil knowledge and thus till this very day many are still recommanding thick oils for "better" engine protection. Yes, they are very professional when it comes to engine and mechanical work, and when we see them perform a job well done, we naturally trust their ability and thus believe what they say. This is where all goes wrong.

My technician Shi Fu is a old timmer as well, with more then 40 years of mechanical experience with various brands of cars and tanks and whatever that can be repaired. However, his oil knowledge is no where. Today i still tap his mechanical knowledge, but when it comes to lubrication, he is nowhere updated. And being a old timmer, he is quite stubbon, so i didn't expect him to take what i say though he does take note of what i do say.

So with the mentality in mind and most of the commonly available oil are 40wt, and suddenly people jump out say 20wt is honda recommanded vis, i think... people wanna be safe and thus take the grade in between. So thats why i reccon why 30wt oils are so hot nowadays. I think for the majority to move on to 20wt, the manufacturer must recommand 10wt oils, as the mentality that thicker oil = better mechanical protection is always there in local people mind.
In a fact it is, but it doesn't matter anyway since local rides don't really require much boundary layer lubrication by the way they drive...... I mean, if our ride is 95% running on boundary lubrication on thin oil, changing to thick oil won't really increase the protection, but only zaps power and screws cold start protection.
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:46

Unfortunately, many in the 'business' of high performance cars and track experienced bros are saying 20wt oils are not tested, and not proven on track.

There are those who said they are willing to sponsor you track time, track entry, and also sponsor you the 0W-20 oil of your choice in your Honda and run 8 hot laps around Sepang.

The classic school of thought is that the 20 wt oils would simply not protect your engine for the long run, even if you change it every 5,000 km because of the high heat in this region.


It was jokingly asked if 20 wt oils were meant to be used in snowing countries, where tempertures challenge the Siberian lows...

oh ... dun shoot the postman... I only deliver the coffeeshop talk...

Essentially, most will not take the 20wt oil out to track, nor would they put it on the roads. Most speculate it would radically shorten the life of the engine in the long run. And some of them know quite a bit (sans qualification papers) about the engine oil thinggy as they are 'in the business'

I'm merely putting forth views for discussion, and hopefully benefit those who read, and those who want to know more in this very interesting discussion.

I'm not out to flame, nor out to belittle, nor anything else. It's pure pursuit of knowledge, and perhaps the latest proven stuff - proven on track, not lab...

peace to all


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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:48

quote bro megalord's reply:

Well, i don't know what to say... We all know nascar rides run on 10wt oils just to unlesh the additional horses to win races, and its proven that those nascar rides are fast and furious when running.. maybe they mean that the 20wt are too thick to be proven on track, as most are running 10wt oils to compete? Redline has a 2wt racing oil even.

I don't know what some "professional" racing mechs are thinking locally. They rather put in PAO oil inside the racing rides and wait for them to shear to 20wt in a short while then to put shear resistant 20wt inside from the begining. A thinned-to-20wt-oil has more protection then a true breed 20wt oil? I don't think thats in anyway true.
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:48

quote bro megalord


High heat in this region do not kill oil life. Thats oil mech thinking actually. The engine oils and engines are pretty comfortable in this region of heat. The driving habbits has a far far greater impact on the oil life and engine life then driving in scorching sun.
I always argue with those old school mechs on this issue, and there is no way i can shut them down but strangely this example could. There is this person in Bitog who drives a F575, and also has a maybach. He runs 20wt oils on them both. And he compared his UOA of 20wt oil with his neighbour's 550 which runs on SHU. Guess what? His 575 shows lesser wear with a 20wt oil. The 550 running on 40wt oil showed more wear. Both does spirited driving and very similar driving habbits. This example never fail to shut them down.
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:50

quote bro megalord:

Actually when people ask me if 20wt oils are meant to be used in snowing countries, i would ask them if 40wt oils are meant for "submarines" travelling amongst the flow of molten rocks and magma. Their best defence is always that if 40wt oil is not good, why is it so popular in singapore? it has to be a singaporean grade. I would then question why are there so many casio to rolex in SG? Because casio is better?

I don't know how to convince local owners anymore actually. Show them UOA, they don't believe. Break open engine show them inside, they don't believe. But when their engine break down prematurely, its wear and tear. When a 200+k km engine running on thin oil break down, they say its because of the thin oil.
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Sat Nov 11 2006, 17:52

so what do you guys think? or again, go with the majority? or loudest voice?

Rolling Eyes
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eeee78
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Mon Nov 13 2006, 09:30

I still dun really understand the oil and petrol thingy
I just know everu 10K km bring my M1 gold to change
Top up petrol when its 1/4 left

lol!
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george
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   Mon Nov 13 2006, 23:29

Me like ELF....tried the Mugen....not very good....and expensive....
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PostSubject: Re: What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?   

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What's the Best Engine Oil for your CAR?
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